SBK & AMA

Tuesday 02 May 2006 11:49:56 by Federico Minoli

L’analisi del risultato della gara di Istanbul è complessa e potremo completarla soltanto quando la telemetria sarà analizzata. Nel frattempo, ecco una risposta ai commenti che alcuni di voi hanno scritto la settimana scorsa, sui motivi dei differenti risultati che Ducati sta ottenendo nel campionato AMA e nel mondiale SBK. Sono risultati che non ci soddisfano e su questo ho organizzato una tavola rotonda. Ne ho voluto parlare con Filippo Preziosi, Paolo Ciabatti ed Ernesto Marinelli, che in Ducati Corse sono rispettivamente direttore generale, direttore programma SBK e direttore tecnico team SBK. Questo è quanto emerso dalle loro considerazioni.

An analysis of the results from Istanbul is complex and we can only have a full explanation when the data from the race has been analyzed. In the meantime, I would like to respond to the comments that a number of you raised in response to my last post: the differences between the results of the AMA and World Superbike Championships. You have touched on an important point, results that are not satisfying, and I have organised a round table to discuss the matter. Here is what came out of my chat with Filippo Preziosi, Ducati Corse Director, Paolo Ciabatti, SBK Programme Director and Ernesto Marinelli, SBK Technical Director.

-English version below-
Il campionato WSBK permette alle moto da 1000 cc di cilindrata 4 e 2 cilindri di competere utilizzando, come criterio per il bilanciamento delle prestazioni, il grado di elaborazione della moto. Per compensare la maggiore potenza dei motori 4 cilindri, ai bicilindrici è concesso un livello più spinto di elaborazione. Questo, allo stato attuale, permette ai bicilindrici di essere competitivi rispetto ai 4 cilindri, anche se al prezzo di una maggiore complessità e di maggiori costi.

Il campionato AMA SBK prevede per i bicilindrici un livello di elaborazione inferiore rispetto al WSBK. Ad esempio l’albero motore e la coppia primaria devono rimanere quelli di serie. Quest’ultima limita fortemente sull’utilizzo dei rapporti finali che determinano i regimi globali sulla pista e una quota ciclistica fondamentale quale la lunghezza forcellone. Tutti questi sono viceversa modificati nel WSBK. I sistemi elettronici, il nostro punto di forza, sono analogamente per regolamento più ristretti rispetto al WSBK, limitando la possibilità di esprimere la nostra forza tecnologica. E’ per questo motivo che nel campionato AMA le moto 4 cilindri godono di un vantaggio regolamentare che è più difficile da colmare rispetto al WSBK.

Per onestà va anche aggiunto che il campionato AMA è estremamente costoso in quanto, a fronte dei costi tecnici e di logistica, è difficile contare su adeguati introiti dagli sponsor americani. Il risultato netto è che la nostra possibilità di spesa è inferiore a quello del WSBK e francamente questo ci penalizza.

Ovviamente lungi da noi la tentazione di gettare la spugna o di accontentarci del terzo o quarto posto. I nostri piloti sono bravi e totalmente motivati. Non smetteranno di batterci sia sul fronte del regolamento, sia su quello finanziario. Vogliamo anche in AMA poter combattere ad armi pari, una situazione in cui non temiamo nessuno.

Spero che questo contribuisca a chiarire i vostri dubbi. E spero anche che voi facciate di tutto per sostenere noi e che il vostro tifo per i piloti Ducati che corrono in entrambi i campionati continui più entusiastico che mai!

In the SBK Championship, the ultimate performance of the 2 and 4 cylinder 1000cc bikes is a result of the technical regulations designed to balance the outputs of the different engine configurations. To compensate for the greater potential of power from 4 cylinder engines, the twins are allowed fewer restrictions to the specification of their set-up. This enables the twins to be competitive against the fours - even if it also means that the twins are more complex and more costly to maintain.

The AMA Championship is a little different in that the set-up levels for a twin are inferior compared to WSBK. For example, the crankshaft and primary gears have to be the same as fitted to production models. We normally use different primary gears to help us find the ideal set-up for the “gearing” of each individual circuit. However, with this restriction we are forced to make adjustments to the final drive gearing and this in turn means having to deviate from a perfect wheelbase length. Even one of our strongest features, the electronics system, is limited by the AMA regulations and this seriously limits our ability to fully exploit our technological strengths.

Honestly, I would also like to add that the AMA championship is extremely costly in that, in comparison to the technical and logistical costs, it is difficult to find enough support from American sponsors. The net result is that we are penalized by the fact that our spending power in the AMA is less than that in the SBK.

Of course we are far from giving in or being satisfied with third or fourth place. Our team and its riders are talented and totally motivated. They will never stop working towards improving their performance - even with the regulatory and financial considerations. We would like to be able to compete in the AMA with equivalent weapons; if that were the case, we wouldn’t fear anyone.

I hope that this contributes to clarify your doubts. I hope that you all do everything in your power to support us and to cheer for the Ducati riders, in both championships, as enthusiastically as ever.

   
(Inserisci un commento)

READER COMMENTS

1. Posted Tuesday 02 May 2006 at 13:18:27 by lady ducati

bene.bravi.
sapevo già.

Adesso bisogna preparare una moto supermega potente
per vincere a Daytona!!!!!

viva Marchetti!!!!

Se avete bisogno di una Umbrella girl, fatemi sapere!!!

Viva Ciabatti!!
ciao!!!!

2. Posted Tuesday 02 May 2006 at 13:21:29 by Thomas Fucili

Thank you, Mr. Minoli, for a frank and honest response. I hope the magicians within Corse can craft a solution to this deficiency, as being an also-ran is unacceptable to all Ducatisti.

3. Posted Tuesday 02 May 2006 at 13:22:19 by pasini giuseppe (pinopino)

si comprendono perfettamente le ragioni e le prestazioni dovute ai diversi regolamenti nei vari
campionati.il bicilindrico penso abbia nel wsbk ancora
margini di miglioramento.va bene così,anzi molto bene,
avanti sempre con questo meraviglioso bicilindrico e
grazie per quello che fate.

4. Posted Tuesday 02 May 2006 at 13:57:55 by Johnny

Yes, in the MotoGp we have the best bike, hence the lead of Gibernau for a few laps.
We only lack riders that have the balls to ride with what the tyre engineers think is best….
I hope that for the next race, the riders ride and let the engineers do their job, so we can show the rest of the field our beautifull tail pipes!

5. Posted Tuesday 02 May 2006 at 19:50:30 by Brian

Grazie Federico! Personally I can’t understand why any manufacturer would endure the absurd costs associated with AMA. It’s a group of sub-par races (courses, events, competitors) and, as you state, has a real cost associated with sponsorships. As an enthusiast I can’t spend more than 15 minutes watching an AMA event before I’ve lost interest. Viva WSBK! Viva Ducati! Ciao!~

6. Posted Tuesday 02 May 2006 at 21:17:15 by Mark

Thank you for the insight. The AMA is an organisation in transition - I hope it improves. The races are painful to watch but I still cheer for the Ducs. Good luck to Neil and Ben. Have you considered racing the production GP bike in AMA? Is this possible?

7. Posted Wednesday 03 May 2006 at 10:07:03 by iron.chief

il problema dei regolamenti purtoppo sarà sempre più da tenere presente in futuro, anche in fase di progettazione delle nuove moto “di serie”!!
C’è anche da dire che con un bicilindrico “di serie” risulta difficile su parecchie piste (specie AMA) tenere dietro i 4 cilindri jap “di serie”.
Diverso il discorso per la WSBK che però consente elaborazioni che ogni anno o due cambiano imponendo nuovi investimenti ed allontanando le squadre ufficiali; non per niente i jap sono tornati con i 4 cilindri quando hanno annusato la possibilità di tenere dietro una stratosferica 999!!
Non vorrei dire una bestemmia, ma se si pensasse ad una SBK 1000 4 cilintri come la GP?? Peraltro la GP stessa dall’anno prox va ad 800cc. siamo sicuri che gli organizzatori SBK si lasciano scappare l’occasione??

8. Posted Wednesday 03 May 2006 at 20:48:46 by AndyW

Thanks for the insight into WSBK and AMA differences. As a huge fan of Ducati and Neil Hodgson and Ben Bostrom it’s hard to watch the races sometimes. You can tell by the consistant lap times they put in that it’s the differences caused by the regulations that limit their success not their abilities as riders.

9. Posted Thursday 04 May 2006 at 17:18:46 by Antonio 888

Federico, le considerzioni emerse dalla tavola rotonda e i commenti degli amici ducatisti nordamericani, tracciano un quadro per niente entusiasmante della situazione AMA. Se bastasse solo il tifo di tutti i ducatisti, così come da te auspicato, a rendere positiva la situazione AMA, credo che domattina saremo tutti daccordo a ’scendere in piazza ‘ ! Gli Usa sono un mercato importante per Ducati e si può capire quanto importante sia per Ducati il campionato AMA. Però bisognerebbe tener conto che alla fine … tanto mi deve dare tanto. Già in partenza però si intuisce che non lo potra mai essere. Ducati parte con uno svantaggio tale che nessuna overdose di passione e di tifo anche dal di qua dell’oceano potrà mai colmare.
Gli svantaggi sono così consistenti che risultano determinanti. L’AMA costa di più del WSBK, e gli sponsor americani sono ‘ stretti di mano ‘ e come se non bastasse, il regolamento tecnico non ci consente di combattere ad armi pari con i Jap. Prendo atto che non smetterete mai di battervi per annullare lo squilibrio, ma quanto durerà questa battaglia ? Fino a quando non la spunterete saremo sempre dei ‘perdenti’. L’immagine che ne deriva non è certo positiva . Penso a Neil e Ben,che nonostante la loro indiscussa classe, sono condannati ad uno ruolo di comparse.
Penso ai nostri amici d’oltre oceano che solo dopo 15 minuti di gara spengono la tv perchè, dicono,lo spettacolo è penoso e privo di interesse. Con quale spirito andranno in garage a tirar fuori la loro Ducati?
E’ una frustrazione per tutti ! Ci deve essere una soluzione a tutto questo e, sono sicuro che la troverete….. presto !
Tonydesmo
100% Puro Ducatista
Made in Italy

10. Posted Thursday 04 May 2006 at 20:29:18 by Edsel

Thank you for the insight into the AMA situation. I’m a huge fan of the Ducati Racing program worldwide. Hopefully the AMA will get it together soon. It’s taking a long time to develop interest in motorcycle racing in the States. SPEED channel has been a great help to get the word out but more corporate sponsorship is needed. Now if we could only get a competitive Harley or Buell we could get more people in the seats, more sponsorship, and better quality venues because that’s the way it is. Most of the tracks in the US are terrible, they’re unsafe, and have completely ridiculous layouts, e.g. Daytona, California Speeday, even Barber with it’s lack of a straightaway. We live in a NASCAR nation. PLEASE SEND HELP!

11. Posted Friday 05 May 2006 at 08:21:08 by Andrea71

Non vedo perché insistere in un campionato così penalizzante per i 2-cilindri.
Ormai l’interesse per l’immagine è tutta nella motoGP, mentre per il prodotto trova già sufficientemente riscontro in SBK.
Son perfettamente d’accordo nell’insistere in un aumento di cilindrata dei 2-cilindri o nella riduzione dei 4, altrimenti ciao.
Saluti

12. Posted Friday 05 May 2006 at 10:30:22 by Alessandro

Mi sembra che il nostro amato bicilindrico, sia arrivatoall’apice delle prestazioni possibili, purtroppo i plurifrazionati, avranno sempre la possibilità di stare un passo avanti. Se ad oggi in WSBK risciamo a vincere a parità di cilindrata, lo dobbiamo a Bayliss ed a qualche pista favorevole…già a monza prevedo qualche difficoltà! Con questo non voglio dire che il progetto bicilindrico sia da eliminare, solo che bisognerebbe spingere per ottenere quanto meno un vantaggio di 50cc, almeno per risparmiare qualcosina anche dal punto di vista economico. I giapponesi, hanno capito come preparare i loro motori, escono già di serie con potenze da SBK di 2 o 3 anni fa. Per ora vinciamo il nostro campionato italiano, quello inglese, quello mondiale e per cio’ che riguarda l’AMA, abbiate fiducia…VINCEREMO W DUCATI!!! Magari investirei qualcosina anche in SS, la povera 749 che ha il vantaggio di cilindrata…mi pare stia raccogliendo poco!!!

13. Posted Friday 05 May 2006 at 11:00:49 by Roberto

In america le case jap hanno un potere politico a dir poco vergognoso!!! Nei vari campionati dove le case jap allungano le mani non lasciano spazio ad altre case estere (speciamente quelle europee).Per avere conferme di quello che dico basta leggere i regolamenti dei vari campionati AMA sbk,cross e supercross e i relativi albi d’oro degli ultimi anni…Un anno fà la ktm aveva buone possibilità di vincere il campionato ama cross 125:Durante l’ultima di campionato è successo di tutto!!! Il pilota ktm sbattutto a terra mentre era fermo da un pilota honda che addirittura durante la gara,si ferma,torna inditro e compie il nobile gesto!!!(tutto documentato su Nuvolari commentato dal Sig. Di Pillo).Ducati non riuscirà mai a cambiare il regolamento ama sbk non ha la sufficinte forza politica.Per vincere in america serve la replica stradale della desmo16 cioe un bel 4 cilindri!

14. Posted Saturday 06 May 2006 at 02:02:22 by Ozenit

Salve a tutti!Signor Minoli produciamo un 4 cilindri, mettiamo un po’ da parte la “tradizione” e vinceremo sia le gare che le vendite!

15. Posted Sunday 07 May 2006 at 18:56:12 by TyDany

No no, niente 4 cilindri, io sono convinto che su strada sia dieci volte meglio il 2 che il 4 cilindri! Poi se si compra la moto solo guardando i cv o il regime di rotazione massimo è un altra storia.
Ducati sta dimostrando che quando può competere alla pari non teme nessuno e le vittorie in sbk vanno divise tra pilota e moto. Io sono un fan sfegatato di Bayliss ma non è corretto dire che sia suo il merito delle vittorie della 999… vero, lui ci mette molto del suo, però togliete Corser alla Suzuki o Haga alla Yamaha… è la stessa cosa!
In AMA se il regolamento ci penalizza c’è poco da fare, è bello lo spirito di continuare a combattere e spero si segua questa strada, fare un quattro cilindri vorrebbe solo dire dargliela vinta ai jap e ciò non è bello ;)

16. Posted Monday 08 May 2006 at 05:59:59 by Alessandro

Quoto Alessandro per quanto riguarda la ss.Possiedo un 749s ultimo modello,moto molto bella con cavalleria almeno pari alle 600cc jap ma mi pare che la Ducati spinga anche a livello commerciale di piu’ la 999 e questo non e’ giusto.Conosco le prestazioni della 749r in ss e non sono per nulla inferiori a quelle delle altre jap solo che Ducati dovrebbe partecipare con un Team ufficiale come in sbk e con piloti migliori.Ci sarebbe anche un ritorno di vendite per questa splendida moto.

17. Posted Monday 08 May 2006 at 06:23:24 by Brandon Chandler

AMA really hurts me to watch. I feel its not a restrictions rule but a not up-to-par bike as the others. I love my Duc dont get me wrong, but if you can not compeat with a stock bike that cost $6000 more then the rest then you must change the bike. Thank you for your honest opnion on the rules and the time you put into this page. I love my 2006 999 and will buy a 2007 if there is a change.

18. Posted Friday 02 June 2006 at 20:17:35 by Mitch Cameron

As for the restrictions inposed on the Ducatis, it’s obvious to me that the Jap 4 cylinder manufacturers are aware that they have inferior bikes and therefore spread the money around to get the advantage. The Ducatis are so superior in every facet when allowed to compete on an even playing field that the 4 cylider boys will stop at nothing to make sure they have every advantage. Ducati RULES!

19. Posted Thursday 08 June 2006 at 01:28:35 by oldlucky

i am an old harley davidson rider which is a v-twin.the ama has changed the dirt track rules so many times so the great xr-750 can rule the mile tracks over the years i get mad every year when i see some new rule they have came up with.i would love to build a ducati 750 that would compete with them. that is a life long dream.i love my 996s and i rule the road when i am riding with my harley friends.its a twin too! happy motoin,old lucky from tennessee

20. Posted Thursday 08 June 2006 at 01:35:05 by oldlucky

i am also proud of the speed channel for all of the coverage of the motogp racing.this is only my opinion but i would lke to see valentino rossi riding a desmocedesi. i love troy bayless and capp,sete and all the other duc pros but i would like to see what rossi could do with the new desmo. old lucky from tennessee

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39. Posted Saturday 06 October 2007 at 15:05:59 by dotarull

[*map/map_index_coml1.txt||10||r||1|| @]

40. Posted Saturday 06 October 2007 at 15:06:14 by dotarull

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41. Posted Saturday 06 October 2007 at 15:06:18 by dotarull

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42. Posted Saturday 06 October 2007 at 20:06:12 by dotarull

[*map/map_all_coml2.txt||10||r||1|| @]

43. Posted Saturday 06 October 2007 at 20:06:33 by dotarull

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44. Posted Sunday 07 October 2007 at 00:39:08 by dotarull

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45. Posted Sunday 07 October 2007 at 00:39:10 by dotarull

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46. Posted Sunday 07 October 2007 at 03:59:43 by dotarull

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47. Posted Sunday 07 October 2007 at 07:22:00 by dotarull

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48. Posted Sunday 07 October 2007 at 11:09:22 by dotarull

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49. Posted Sunday 07 October 2007 at 11:09:26 by dotarull

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50. Posted Sunday 07 October 2007 at 11:09:32 by dotarull

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51. Posted Sunday 07 October 2007 at 11:09:42 by dotarull

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53. Posted Monday 05 November 2007 at 12:56:08 by Kir

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90. Posted Tuesday 06 November 2007 at 09:01:20 by Dominic

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93. Posted Tuesday 06 November 2007 at 11:01:21 by Joe

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96. Posted Tuesday 06 November 2007 at 13:30:55 by Heel

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98. Posted Tuesday 06 November 2007 at 14:22:46 by Neo

99. Posted Tuesday 06 November 2007 at 21:00:33 by Hero

100. Posted Tuesday 06 November 2007 at 21:01:58 by Heel

101. Posted Tuesday 06 November 2007 at 21:44:22 by Joe

104. Posted Tuesday 06 November 2007 at 23:49:02 by Halo

105. Posted Tuesday 06 November 2007 at 23:51:27 by Arnie

106. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 02:23:24 by Joe

107. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 02:23:31 by Joe

108. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 02:28:31 by Halo

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110. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 03:05:54 by Kir

111. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 04:54:45 by Joe

112. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 05:02:29 by Dominic

113. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 05:32:41 by Neo

114. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 05:32:44 by Neo

115. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 05:39:46 by Bill

116. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 07:29:51 by Kir

117. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 07:39:04 by Halo

118. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 08:10:59 by Arnie

119. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 08:20:35 by Bill

120. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 11:32:58 by Joe

121. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 11:33:34 by July

122. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 14:04:38 by Heel

123. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 14:06:18 by Hero

124. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 14:43:22 by Dominic

125. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 14:43:38 by Dominic

126. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 14:45:09 by Still

127. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 16:44:19 by Diesel

128. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 16:48:42 by Still

129. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 17:27:34 by Jane

130. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 17:32:22 by Kir

131. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 19:41:25 by Jane

132. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 20:28:28 by Halo

133. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 22:51:12 by Kir

134. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 23:00:01 by Aron

135. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 23:39:45 by Dominic

136. Posted Wednesday 07 November 2007 at 23:48:53 by Hero

137. Posted Thursday 08 November 2007 at 01:45:10 by July

138. Posted Thursday 08 November 2007 at 01:56:15 by Neo

139. Posted Thursday 08 November 2007 at 02:23:39 by Hero

140. Posted Thursday 08 November 2007 at 02:35:38 by Halo

141. Posted Thursday 08 November 2007 at 13:30:06 by Still

142. Posted Thursday 08 November 2007 at 13:34:09 by Diesel

143. Posted Thursday 08 November 2007 at 13:34:16 by Diesel

144. Posted Thursday 08 November 2007 at 16:07:42 by Joe

145. Posted Thursday 08 November 2007 at 17:00:25 by Halo

146. Posted Thursday 08 November 2007 at 19:00:15 by Kir

147. Posted Thursday 08 November 2007 at 19:09:09 by Bill

148. Posted Thursday 08 November 2007 at 19:40:39 by Arnie

149. Posted Thursday 08 November 2007 at 19:50:49 by Diesel

150. Posted Saturday 10 November 2007 at 10:01:35 by Neo

151. Posted Saturday 10 November 2007 at 10:03:37 by Kir

152. Posted Monday 12 November 2007 at 16:12:07 by Heel

153. Posted Monday 12 November 2007 at 16:13:28 by Halo

154. Posted Monday 12 November 2007 at 16:59:18 by Heel

155. Posted Monday 12 November 2007 at 16:59:37 by Halo

156. Posted Monday 12 November 2007 at 19:22:32 by Diesel

157. Posted Monday 12 November 2007 at 20:11:47 by Kir

158. Posted Monday 12 November 2007 at 22:18:45 by July

159. Posted Monday 12 November 2007 at 22:59:06 by Heel

160. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 00:58:17 by Kir

161. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 01:02:04 by Jane

162. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 01:02:08 by Jane

163. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 01:36:09 by Dominic

164. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 01:39:33 by Dominic

165. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 03:40:25 by Hero

166. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 04:14:34 by Jane

167. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 04:23:30 by Arnie

168. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 04:23:46 by Arnie

169. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 04:23:50 by Arnie

170. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 17:16:43 by Aron

171. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 18:07:52 by Aron

172. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 18:08:41 by Neo

173. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 20:41:22 by Heel

174. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 20:43:56 by Still

175. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 21:35:43 by Still

176. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 21:39:58 by Arnie

177. Posted Tuesday 13 November 2007 at 21:40:25 by Arnie

178. Posted Saturday 17 November 2007 at 21:58:30 by Neo
182. Posted Sunday 18 November 2007 at 08:17:02 by Diesel
185. Posted Sunday 18 November 2007 at 19:32:43 by Dominic
186. Posted Tuesday 20 November 2007 at 01:09:01 by Halo
189. Posted Tuesday 20 November 2007 at 21:46:39 by Aron
190. Posted Wednesday 21 November 2007 at 16:34:25 by July
191. Posted Thursday 22 November 2007 at 04:44:41 by Aron
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